First, a word of thanks for all who have responded to the blog, I appreciate your insight.
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Well, my first installment has met with some interesting interaction.
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Have you ever tried to put thread through the eye of a needle. It seems this task was much easier when I was younger with better dexterity of digits and plainer sight. I also thought that I had all the answers of life at that age as well. "If I can thread a needle, then surely I'll find the one in the haystack." Nothing, I mean nothing (that was despite my statements of humility) seemed beyond my reach. I was, as the old proverbial statement goes, "Invincible." I wish that were true, little did I know that time and the exercise of living would show me my ignorance.
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How do you know when all is well? When will you come to the place that you will ask no questions? Is there a resting place for the heart that wanders or wearies? I say yes though often I feel no!
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The question, you may protest, what is the QUESTION !!
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Don't let my weird sense of humor enrage you as I say, "I'm glad you asked."
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As you ponder this question, please do not rush to any answer, for it is not an easy question, nor will the Lord allow you to be rash in your response. Take it in, breath deeply and let it digest before you chase aimlessly through tall weeds of hurt or the closely cut grass of arrogance.
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Here it is...
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Take it in slowly...
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Be wary of your darker side...
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Would God ever call you to attend a dead church?
(if you fast forwarded to the question, you've missed much, go back and read or you'll be found wanting)
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There, now I've asked it, now, do not leave me alone in my quest, visit the next time when we will take in a meal from this smorgasbord of thought.
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I do not wish to offend, but please do not rush to answer nor send me quick quips, instead, let it set in the belly of your mind. Make no rash judgements as to what I am trying to say, you may be found quite taken with the thoughts I will share along this journey. So for now, ask away, but only ask yourself. The answer begins there.
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Till Next Time...
16 comments:
I am pleased to be the 1st to respond. I believe that you receive what you give in a church. If the church is "dead" is it that you are not putting forth the faith, the time, talent, treasure to make the church what it needs to be. Don't put words in Gods mouth. I think the big question is...what would Jesus do?
I don't need time to think about it. The answer came to me immediately: "Of course He would, if He thought you might be the 'spark' to bring it back to life!
If you are talking about the definition of a "dead church" being the people are not spirit filled and have gotten to the point where they just "go through the motions", then yes he might. Why wouldn't he. He might be calling you to be the his vessel to get people "right again with God."
Our pastor made an interesting statement Sunday in that he said the less "God" you have in a church, the "more entertainment" that means nothing you will find.
Living in an area of the so-called Bible belt opened my eyes to many things. We have at least 700 differetn religions in this small area of North Carolina! A inordinate amount of wiccan, new age............the list goes on and on and on.
Saying all that to say this, he might be calling you to a place that needs to hear the unaltered word of God and it not a place for just "entertainment" on Sunday morning!
Bill, nobody ever said I was too shy to state my opinion! haha
janielou? Are you my mom?
Many ?'s come to mind. The first being what changes when the word "attend" is replaced with the word "pastor"? I think Kaye is right in asking what the definition of dead is. It seems many times the dead do not know they are dead because they are happy to stay in that state.
As long as this church doesn't have a "DNR" clause in it's living will. Ha!, Ha!
My answer would be no by the way the question is stated. Dead means totally seperate from life and if this church (meeting place)is dead, that means they have seperated themselves from the truth that is found in Christ Jesus alone. If God has decided to close a church, get out of Sodom and don't look back or you will be destroyed with it.
Having said this, we should use extreme caution tagging a church as "dead". Church doors close all the time for many different reasons and not all them are because God is reigning down judgment on this wicked group people. As you are most likely aware, we are seeing bigger and bigger church buildings built all around us. These churches attract people from other churches and numbers at other churches start going down and at the same time church attendance isn't as common place as it once was which means a smaller percent of the population will attend. There are many churches out there that we would tag as dying because the number are declining but in reality, they are spiritually booming. Those that do attend are faithful to the Lord and are in obedience to His Word. You might ask "then why aren't they growing?". The bible warns throughout the New Testiment that wickedness will continue to worsen and people would not stand to hear the truth and raise up false teachers that tell them what they want to hear and it will worsen until Christ returns to put an end to it.
Don't be fooled by the size of the group of people meeting. There are many false churches out there of all sizes.
If you are being drawn to a truly dead church, check your motives.
I am thinking about what you have written.....
to avoid confusion "anonymous" March 19, 2007 9:05 AM is changing the identity to "rjsrd".
Let me clarify what I meant by my earlier statement:
"If you are being drawn to a truly dead church, check your motives."
One
If you have identified a church as "dead", and you are being drawn to it, examine why you are being drawn to it. A believer can have such love for the people of a "dead" church that they believe they can change it by sharing the truth with them but if they have rejected the truth found in God's Word, they will reject you as well.
Two
Are you trying to remove the splinter before the log. Have you in your arrogance and pride mis-lable a wounded church as dead. For all you in the EMS world, what is the first thing you do when you come up on what appears to be a dead body? You check for signs of life. Your first instinct or oppinion may have been that person is dead but in reality they are just injured and with the help of a physician they can fully recover.
3rd
Would it be a wise decision to jump into the raging waters to try and recover the dead body of someone who by all reasonible signs availible to you is already dead? You see the body, there no struggle to survive and there is no live movement at all. More than likely, they will be pulling two bodies from the water instead of one if you were to attempt such a rescue.
Let's get down to the real issue at hand. It isn't the spiritual condition of the church that is probably in question here but whether or not you trust the one who is calling you to be obedient.
Abraham was called to sacrifice his only son. Could you imagine the responses Abraham would have received if he would have asked even his closest friends if he should obey God's calling. He would have been given some of the same answers we are responding with and various reasons why he must not be in tune with what God was really wanting. We look back this side of the biblical account and we see that it wasn't Abraham's only son that God was reqiring but Abraham's genuine trust in the one he believed that leads to obedience.
In contrast we can look at Jonah. God called him to go preach to Niniva. Jonah rebelled because he loathed those wicked people and refused to obey the one he believed and as a result God taught him a lesson. To make a long story short. Jonah did preach to Niniva and many people trusted in God. Has it ever crossed your mind how many people perished during Jonah's rebellion?
To sum it up,we are finite people who serve an infinitely wise and powerful God who knows what is needed in each and every circumstance. The true question should be, do I trust him enough to be obedient to his calling or not?
Churches will come and go but the One who calls you to be faithful will remain faithful to you, even to the end of this world.
Please do not be judgmental of the origin of the original question. God may be using the one faithful enough to ask it, to reach someone who is struggling with obedience. If we are honest with ourselves, we all ponder these types of questions as some point. Quite a few years back, I asked a pastor who visited my home "why God closes churches?" I saw the church that I was attending as a "dying church". That church is still there today and it only has a remenant of the attendance it once had but those that still go there are some of the most spiritual and obedient believers you'll find any where. They have stood fast in a time where churches are becoming more like the world to get the numbers up. That church will most likely one day close the doors but it won't be because they weren't faithful. It will be because they were faithful and the world wanted nothing to do with that. So once again, we must use exteme caution when we lable churches that are in attendance crisis. We also need to be cautious when labling churches thriving in attendance because they may very well be in a spiritual crisis. Hold every church or ministry accoutible to the scriptures and let the numbers fall where they may. God will be just as faithful to the few as he will be to the plenty.
And Bill thinks he rambles on!
Father, speak to our hearts. We are a needy people and always fall short of your glory. You know who needs the answer to this question. Fill their heart with wisdom and the faithfulness to be obedient. Forgive us of our judgmentalness and help us to keep it in the forefront of our minds that you are the only only One and Wise judge. May we be faithful to your calling until you bring us home. Amen
Let's get down to the real issue at hand. It isn't the spiritual condition of the church that is probably in question here but whether or not you trust the one who is calling you to be obedient.
Abraham was called to sacrifice his only son. Could you imagine the responses Abraham would have received if he would have asked even his closest friends if he should obey God's calling. He would have been given some of the same answers we are responding with and various reasons why he must not be in tune with what God was really wanting. We look back this side of the biblical account and we see that it wasn't Abraham's only son that God was reqiring but Abraham's genuine trust in the one he believed that leads to obedience.
In contrast we can look at Jonah. God called him to go preach to Niniva. Jonah rebelled because he loathed those wicked people and refused to obey the one he believed and as a result God taught him a lesson. To make a long story short. Jonah did preach to Niniva and many people trusted in God. Has it ever crossed your mind how many people perished during Jonah's rebellion?
To sum it up,we are finite people who serve an infinitely wise and powerful God who knows what is needed in each and every circumstance. The true question should be, do I trust him enough to be obedient to his calling or not?
Churches will come and go but the One who calls you to be faithful will remain faithful to you, even to the end of this world.
Please do not be judgmental of the origin of the original question. God may be using the one faithful enough to ask it, to reach someone who is struggling with obedience. If we are honest with ourselves, we all ponder these types of questions as some point. Quite a few years back, I asked a pastor who visited my home "why God closes churches?" I saw the church that I was attending as a "dying church". That church is still there today and it only has a remenant of the attendance it once had but those that still go there are some of the most spiritual and obedient believers you'll find any where. They have stood fast in a time where churches are becoming more like the world to get the numbers up. That church will most likely one day close the doors but it won't be because they weren't faithful. It will be because they were faithful and the world wanted nothing to do with that. So once again, we must use exteme caution when we lable churches that are in attendance crisis. We also need to be cautious when labling churches thriving in attendance because they may very well be in a spiritual crisis. Hold every church or ministry accoutible to the scriptures and let the numbers fall where they may. God will be just as faithful to the few as he will be to the plenty.
And Bill thinks he rambles on!
Father, speak to our hearts. We are a needy people and always fall short of your glory. You know who needs the answer to this question. Fill their heart with wisdom and the faithfulness to be obedient. Forgive us of our judgmentalness and help us to keep it in the forefront of our minds that you are the only only One and Wise judge. May we be faithful to your calling until you bring us home. Amen
Ben there, but now attending an alive church.
To anonymous: I agree with you, been there and now attending an alive church. The ironic thing about it is that I always heard about those "horrid" great big churches and the church I attend is big (to me its big anyway and what I was use to it classifies as big), around 1500 on Sunday morning. But it still preaches the old-fashioned, unlatered word of God! If it didn't, I would not be there.
I am currently serving in a smaller church around the 100-200 attendence mark. When I first starting attending, that is all I wanted to do was attend. I was ready to spiritually retire from active duty. I was wanting to come to church and worship through songs, listen to the sermon and leave. I thought there were enough people to handle the duties that needed to be done. However, God convicted me of my "spiritual eating without working" desires. How do those that attend the much larger churches fight the temptation of becoming a spirtual hobo? Do they stay long enough to eat than move on without pithcing in to help? The question is, is our service in the church we attend pleasing God? Do we examine our performance? Do we care? Does it matter to God as long as we are attending?
TO: RJSRD
You have some good points! I am sure there are many "spiritual hobos" (I love that description) in large churches just as smaller churches. Its no different, you have to get in there and be involved and work! In larger churches sometimes the only way to begin to do that is start in smaller groups just to be able to meet people and know who folks are. After awhile it doesn't seem big anymore and you know more names and faces than you can even imagine and can do just as much work in a bigger church as you can a small one. The bottom line is that God gave you free will to serve him and we each know in our hearts whether we are serving him at the capacity we should be. We know what we are called to do.
Steve made a statement to my statement that some folks don't know they are dead and are quite happy to stay in the state they are in of "do nothing." That's where you have to go back and remember what is a church? It is not the building, it is the PEOPLE! You can have a quite spiritual church with 10 people in a pup tent and a totally dead unspiritual church with a building with 5000 people. When you have that, then you have nothing but "entertainment". Again, the less God you have, the more entertainment you must have.
Yes, I do think God may call us to dead churches. But will He call us to allow or families to be burried alive under the inlfuence of that church?
Dear Stiltskin... I can't speak for you and your circumstances but this is a great question. Many times God has called others to the brink of harm, Abraham and Isaac, Job and his children, Peter and John even Jesus himself. I do not mean to imply that this "martyr" mentality be our guide. What I am saying is that when we are follwing God's plan, even the deadliest of areas have no real threat to our security in Christ. For me, I have caused harm to loved ones by trying to do things that were not Scriptural, therefore could not be called of God, and had to make reconciliation with those I have hurt. If you have a particular area in mind it would be good to bathe this decision in prayer, scripture and Godly counsel from others. In closing, let me try to give you some helpful things to do when faced with a big decision...
...First, make sure your own life is currently in fellowship with Jesus. This requires us to "take the beam out of our own eye" as Jesus said in Matthew 7. Many try to fix others or lead others without taking needed time to clear out our own fleshly struggles.
...Second, do not take scripture and just say "I've found the answer. The possiblity that God would call someone to sacrifice thier child (Isaac) two times in scripture to prove his trust in a foundational promise to a man whose lineage would become a nation is pretty rare. As a matter of face, God does not repeat that scenario in scripture again. Be careful on just jumping to conclusions without study of the word and prayer.
...Last, if you have not sought wise counsel from others, then you are short circuiting God's plan to "sharpen iron" (Prov. 27:17). A note on seeking counsel from others. Youi should speak to three different types (not three people per se) of "counsel". Choose a preson who has your walk with the Lord at the heart of your friendship. Choose another person who is not involved with nothing to lose from the decision you are making. Then choose a person who is totally outside of all the stuff, maybe even an aquaintance, who has a Godly reputation. This last person could be a leader from another church.
I pray that you have read this info and would love to hear personally from you if I can be of any help.
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